Curse

Loviatar · Nov 28, 2006, 09:59 PM // 21:59

[QUOTE=reetkever]What A-net says about economy isn't right: It's happening to us right now. Stuff is getting more expensive, and it's also unrelieable (Silver dye being worth less than red dye, wtf?).

oh yes it is getting more expensive

sigels used to be 75k and now they are a fraction of that

any rune used to be valuable before the rune trader..........now?

superior absorb was stuck at 100k until the increased drop rate....now?

Quote:

Also, any1 can farm if people weren't so lazy or when they don't want to farm. A-net says 'people can make more gold than an average player'... Well I'm a rather avarage player and I could make about 50K a day. Now, that has almost been nullified to 1K.

considering that some time ago Anet posted that the *average* player had about 20k you have just proved their point

Quote:

mass farming could be done with every profession, so 50K was good for an 'average player.'

no.......a heavy duty farmer not an average person playing the game

Quote:

Back before the update, people didn't need to buy cash online, now, they do cause they want that FoW armor but can't farm anymore.

i actually laughed at that.

IGN has been giving quotes of 49.99 per million GW gold long before Factions came out let alone the update you blame.

what every farmer complaint boils down to is

*I CANT MAKE MONEY AS FAST AS I COULD BEFORE*

see every anti bot fix for repeats of the same people posting the same complaint

The Ernada · Nov 28, 2006, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I laughed when Reetkeever said that he farmed 50k a day and that he was an average player. Then I laughed even harder when he said that he could only get 1k a day now.

reetkever · Nov 28, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

I laughed when Reetkeever said that he farmed 50k a day and that he was an average player. Then I laughed even harder when he said that he could only get 1k a day now.

Well I play 3 hours a day, and usually farmed 1 of these 3 hours. In 1 hour I can make 50K, why can't any other person do that? Indeed, cause of lazyness.

Now I don't make any gold, except when doing missions/quests, I get about 2/3 drops per mission/quest which sell for 40 gold at merchant. When doing a few quests, I get about 3K, but I also buy stuff like ID kits/salvage kits... I'm sometimes even losing gold every day.

Especially now things are starting to get expensive again (lots of minor runes are 1K each, materials prices are going up, weapons have higher demands, cause people want to equip their heroes as well.)

Superior Absorption and Vigor being worth less is because all gold armors now become sup runes, and vigor and absorpion drop more often. Also, because there's a bigger variation of professions, there are less people who buy warrior runes (absorption).

Note that superior vigor still is worth alot, and minor/superior runes are going up in price again (there wasn't a single rune except vigor that was above 1K, now alot of minors are above 1K, not to mention insignias)

The Ernada · Nov 28, 2006, 10:16 PM // 22:16

You still dont get it. You claimed to have made 50k in 1 hour and now you say that you can only make 1k? And you have the nerve to call people lazy? I smell something rotten.

crimsonfilms · Nov 28, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Reetkever's claim of 50k per day and claiming that is the average player is just hilarious.

And not to mention he equates mindless farming and complaints about high prices to laziness illustrates how out of touch he and his kind are.

Loviatar · Nov 28, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Now I don't make any gold, except when doing missions/quests, I get about 2/3 drops per mission/quest which sell for 40 gold at merchant. When doing a few quests, I get about 3K, but I also buy stuff like ID kits/salvage kits... I'm sometimes even losing gold every day.

you are kidding.

i can run through the desert with my non farming build ele plus 3 heroes taking their share and still have to salvage the cheaper stuff (less than 75 gold) just to make room.

easily a few k per hour after paying for ID/EXPERT SALVAGE kits

lacasner · Nov 28, 2006, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Lack of rpg content!!! big time

fight, fight, fight, fight, fight all there is to this game and wait farming!

Wonder why people get bored?? I have said this in meny debates I even said that nerfs and pvp will kill this game.

There needs a change alright, skills and fighting is not going to cut it!

aaawww wait pvpers don't want nothing new,

My suggetions still stands

mounts
ships
homes
etc any way I have posted on other fourms my sugestions

Ya, I agree plus there really isn't any downside to this, and it would be a good goldsink for Anet.

The Ernada · Nov 29, 2006, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Blaming PVP people for your boredom is idiotic. They dont care what Anet does with PVE as long as it doesnt affect PVP.

If anyone was shooting down your ideas it was your fellow PVE players.

Samueldg · Nov 29, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwig

I don't have to do that, because i play this game more than I visit these forums, and I've never seen 15 people complaining like you say. So if I were to go online, right now, sit in a district for 15 minutes, on the off chance I did see someone complaining about it (seriously i've been in kamadan for ten and nobody has been complaining, shocker) it would be 3 or 4 people, and about 30 or 40 people who don't give a crap.

You're in the minority. You're just more loud about it.

sorry I think your wrong...

in the past two weeks Ive seen seven guilds go from 80-100 members to 20-40 .... most of the 20-40 havent logged on in a week...

a large number of people on my friends list have all quit due to the nerf.
most people wont bother complaining becuase they feel that Anet doesnt give a damn... I generally agree with them.. anet got thier money..

Hanharr · Nov 29, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I'm bored. So bored. Bored. x.x

I noticed that there are now like half as many people playing since the updates. Hmmm... I wonder why....

Sir Kilgore · Nov 29, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Because Guild Wars does make extensive use of a player-driven economy, we at ArenaNet have a responsibility to manage the economy, and we take that responsibility seriously. You might ask: what exactly is our responsibility? Is it to keep prices within a certain range? Is it to maintain price stability? We think that, expressed in its most general terms, our responsibility is to keep the distribution of wealth as fair as possible, so that normal players can afford to bid for items in a player-driven economy. We need to avoid situations where a small subset of players can earn orders of magnitude more gold than the average player, thus driving up prices of rare items to a level where normal players could never hope to afford them.

There are three ways that certain players earn more gold than the average. The first and most obvious way is that, because everyone plays the game differently, some players are able to find unusually profitable areas to hunt in, or tricky strategies for killing a lot of monsters quickly. The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme. Although a very knowledgeable or tricky player may be able to earn gold twice as fast as the average, this tends not to create a significant problem, because prices for items in the player-driven economy will still stay at levels where normal players can afford them. But sometimes differences in the distribution of wealth can be extreme; a group of players can find ways to earn gold ten times as fast as the average player. In this case, prices can rise to a level where normal players can’t afford to trade for items anymore. Then we have a problem, and we need to adjust the game to bring wealth distribution back into normal ranges. We constantly monitor the game, so we know when a certain place or technique is being heavily exploited. When an issue like this becomes too severe, we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line.

This makes no sense at all.

First of all the best mods on weapons are available through collectors or for 5K from weapons merchants. Therefore no one is being excluded from getting the most effective equipment due to anything farmers introduced into the equation. Green items are also typically "perfect" and sell for reasonable prices that the "average player" can afford. The only thing farmers offer is rare skins on gold items with the SAME mods at a ridiculous price. Anet did the same thing with FOW armor, so where do they get off talking about driving price up to where "normal players" could never hope to afford them?

Furthermore no one has ever forced anyone else to spend 100K +100 ectos for anything. I see those WTS advertisements and laugh. There's no way I'd spend that kind of money for any weapon in the game, but if someone else wants it that bad and has that kind of resources who am I to stand in their way?

It would be far different if somehow a relatively small group of individuals could corner the market, so to speak, on weapons/items that actually affected gameplay, but we aren't talking about that. Even a novice player can get the best stats on weapons and armor simply by doing sidequests and normal progression through the game. Many of these can be obtained by just turning in items to collectors, so you don't even have to spend a single gold piece to get them.

The attitude expressed above smacks of socialism and frankly it disgusts me to see that some people expect access to the things someone else has when they don't bother to put in the time and effort to get it (this is true of real life more than the game, but it still applies).

Just to be clear on this, I'm not some kind of uber farmer and never have been. I don't have a single set of FOW armor and have never had more than 150K banked. I don't have the time or desire to farm for endless hours to get some item which I'd have to sell by spamming WTS for more endless hours somewhere. The other side of that is I don't have any problem with others who do have the time and desire to do that.

To me it's just a shame that a company would go so far out of it's way to fix something which wasn't broken and in the process alienate a fair chunk of its customers. Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg!

Sorry to veer so far off topic. I still play some, but not long ago you'd never have seen me on here because I would never have wasted my precious playing time by visiting these forums. That should sum it up fairly well.

birdfoot · Nov 29, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Sir Kilogore, I must say I also don't agree with ANet's perspective.

Here's my view:

There are quite a number of players who spent more time playing GW (on the average), and I call those players 'more hardworking'. In the past, the most common farming returns (for e.g. Vermins) for players are about 1K per run and about 4~5 runs per hour on average. If the player was hard-working, say he/she spent 3 hours daily on farming, he/she's be able to make about 15K per day. We're talking about the 'hardworking' folks here; more dedication to the game, higher returns.

On the other hand, let's look at casual players who are less hardworking. These players probably play only during free time or when they want to, say perhaps only over weekends. This may be due to real-life commitment or simply less interest in the game. In the past, if they had focus on the game for a 3-hour farming session to play the game, they could earn about 15K during that session. If they wanted to get a 15K armor, they'd still be able to do so without going through much frustration. It'd just take a longer period since the frequency with which they play/farm in the game is lesser than the hardworking ones. If they had played the game normally and were looking to buy more than 1 set of 15K armors, it'd take ages; not many players are gonna have that kind of patience.

Now we come back to the current scenario after the AI update, it is harder to farm for the hardworking guys. In the same spirit, it is also harder for the casual players to make quick bucks when they really need to. Since GW is pretty much based on mob-killing as the consistent way of earning gold, there are not many other avenues to earn gold quickly. Consider a new player who have not had the luck of finding good items to trade with others (even trading has been diffifcult all along), or a player so casual that he/she's not even knowledgeable about items that have good prices (he/she just sells to merchants). What other options do such players have to earn gold fast enough to get the armor sets he/she wants before getting tired of going out to an explorable area to kill mobs, coming back with small returns (and taking a long time to do so)?

I haven't been active on the guru forums because I played with a group of friends who recently started Nightfall. They had been looking at all the cool looking armors in GuildWiki and was asking me about how they could get enough gold and materials to buy those things they want since they are earning gold at a really slow pace and don't want to do quests all the time just for gold. Honestly, I didn't know how I should answer them. They are all working adults and the kind of dedication they can spend in this game is 2 hours a day at best; 15K armor (not even FoW) seems to be a very long way to go and they are still slowly advancing the storyline. Different players are driven by different aspects of GW, some folks love farming and getting rich; while others love to play the game normally taking their time. I see it better to always leave the option of farming to players, the option is always there if one needs it. ANet's 'tweaking' doesn't hurt hardworking folks that much, it just makes it more time-consuming (and very annoying); who it really hurts are causal players that want to get something but are yet unable to spend huge amount of time playing the game due to real-life commitment. While changes to the game are nice, not all are improvements or serve any real purpose.

I've always shared the sentiment that ANet doesn't have to provide any 'fix' since nothing was essentially broken. Should we begrudge those that actually spent more time playing the game to be richer and having better stuff? In real-life, unless one is born with a silver spoon, else doing nothing means gaining nothing. While I don't yet have a big issue with the 'tweaks' but I reckon it was uncalled for; it didn't help much and yet affected alot of the players. I'm not really into the idea of wealth balancing, especially if I had worked much harder than the rest of the community and my returns (compared to the rest) aren't in the right proportions. Besides, casual players probably aren't that much affected by the difference in wealth; if elite players were selling stuff for 100K+, were they ever forced into buying it? If ANet wanted to help poorer players, they might as well impose Goods & Services Tax for all items that we purchase ingame and perhaps have some 'dough' system (I'd probably quit the game when that happens... lol).

Quote:

The search for the most effective way to play can be a fun part of the game for everyone -- we all like to see how well our characters can do, and whether we can tweak our characters to be better than they were previously -- and so we at ArenaNet don’t consider this a problem unless it’s extreme.

That sounds like a sweeping statement. It's always fun to discover new things but not always fun to 're-discover'.

Dallus · Nov 29, 2006, 07:15 AM // 07:15

lol are u guys crazy??? Farming is def not dead. If you were members of my guild I we could teach u the new farming tricks and places

NOOBS :P just because one build is dead does not mean "DOOOOM"

It was easy to come up with new places and new builds to farm ( honestly the best char to farm with now is a ELE ) I make at least 80k in 2 days of farming. 3 hours each day

Omega X · Nov 29, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanharr

I noticed that there are now like half as many people playing since the updates. Hmmm... I wonder why....

Holidays?

Other things to do?

Real Life?

Other Games?

People don't have to spend all of their time in GW.

xXa1 · Nov 29, 2006, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Yes, people don't have to spend all of their time in GW and many have quit the game altogether.

Everytime someone says "bored? go take a break" people do and they don't come back.

Quit deluding yourself, the current active subscriber base is low and shrinking.

The Ernada · Nov 29, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Again I ask, what the point of this thread is other than for people to say how bored they are, how GW is dying and how they're quitting. No matter what side of the issue you're on, you've got to see that this is going nowhere and this is just beating a dead horse.

Samueldg · Nov 29, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallus

lol are u guys crazy??? Farming is def not dead. If you were members of my guild I we could teach u the new farming tricks and places

NOOBS :P just because one build is dead does not mean "DOOOOM"

It was easy to come up with new places and new builds to farm ( honestly the best char to farm with now is a ELE ) I make at least 80k in 2 days of farming. 3 hours each day

this is typical of the jackass inserts placed throughout the forums... anytime anyone says boo about the nerf and how its effected gameplay some kid spouts on and on about how "leet" they are with thier "new" "hidden" farm...

please.. spare us the righteous indignation of your bragging.. because without PROOF.. your just talking out your butt...

Stixxx · Nov 29, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

I think i will never get bored of playing GW... i still have so much things to do with it...

getting my titles, both pve as pvp...
getting my chars through the game...

Maybe when i get all that i might be getting bored but not likely lol

Pudin Tame · Nov 29, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallus

lol are u guys crazy??? Farming is def not dead. If you were members of my guild I we could teach u the new farming tricks and places

NOOBS :P just because one build is dead does not mean "DOOOOM"

It was easy to come up with new places and new builds to farm ( honestly the best char to farm with now is a ELE ) I make at least 80k in 2 days of farming. 3 hours each day

Some of the posters here are the ones that invented the build you're using. We know farming isn't dead, it's just not fun anymore.

unienaule · Nov 29, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

After trying to read a couple pages of this thread, it's either about:
Real life
Boredom
Farming
Economics
Titles
How to BS your way through life with fake statistics
Declining guild size
People being too lazy to farm and/or making up stuff that isn't true

Since there is clearly not even a topic to get off of, I'm closing this tangled mess of people shouting at each other.